AIM Chat with Bill Abrams , Chirashree Bhattacharya , Anne Collins , Benjamin Collins , Dennis Keeler, Edward Moy , Julianne Rainbolt , Jen Roche , Daniel Shown , Gordon Swain , Gordon Williams , Shaochen Yang , Daylene Zielinski .
2:23 PM
Russell Blyth: Welcome back
Daylene Zielinski has declined the invitation to this chat.
Benjamin Collins: Good afternoon, all.
Gordon Swain: Hello all.
Tom Hoffman has joined this chat.
2:25 PM
Julianne Rainbolt: hi
Tom Hoffman: hi
Chirashree Bhattacharya: hi everyone
Russell Blyth: video is up on pm1
Daniel Shown: rtsp://165.134.240.35/GAP060713pm1.sdp
Julianne Rainbolt: vnc is up: 165.134.13.231
Russell Blyth: Good afternoon!
2:30 PM
Russell Blyth: any problems?
Julianne Rainbolt: We're ready to go
Julianne Rainbolt: We'll start with FGB again and then finish section 14
Julianne Rainbolt: Then move on to your projects again
Anne Collins: yay!
2:35 PM
Julianne Rainbolt: Group Explorer, that Dennis mentioned this morning, is another program that does similar things and is available cross-platform
Julianne Rainbolt: If I can spend some time on it before tomorrow I may try to show it then
Julianne Rainbolt: Pretty colors!
Anne Collins: beautiful! exactly what i want!
Benjamin Collins: Someone post the URL for "Group Explorer".
Dennis Keeler: yes, haven't fully explored it yet, but will do the colored tables you showed
Julianne Rainbolt: http://groupexplorer.sourceforge.net/
Benjamin Collins: THX
2:40 PM
Daylene Zielinski: Russ -- I need another invitation to the main chat. I had to reboot AIM again. -- Daylene
Benjamin Collins: Daylene, you're in the main chat.
Daylene Zielinski: Nevermind -- I guess I'm here.
Daylene Zielinski: got it
Gordon Williams: anne and I will be ready in the am
Julianne Rainbolt: Great!
2:50 PM
Russell Blyth: 14.6 - 14.9
2:55 PM
Julianne Rainbolt: video is pm1
Julianne Rainbolt: Welcome, Bill
Julianne Rainbolt: Section 14 completion
Bill Abrams: Sorry I am late.
Julianne Rainbolt: it's fine
Julianne Rainbolt: Conjecture?
Julianne Rainbolt: #14.8?
Gordon Swain: n
Julianne Rainbolt: Ta
Julianne Rainbolt: p=?
Russell Blyth: in 14.10a
Dennis Keeler: p=2
Gordon Swain: 2
Julianne Rainbolt: n=?
Gordon Swain: n=6
3:00 PM
Julianne Rainbolt: ?
Tom Hoffman: 5
Julianne Rainbolt: 
Gordon Swain: It's Thursday!
Julianne Rainbolt: :-0
Julianne Rainbolt: 
Jen Roche: x^5+x^2+1 works
Tom Hoffman: why not use Factors(x^(2^5)-x)
Julianne Rainbolt: What's another way?
Julianne Rainbolt: That would give them all?
Julianne Rainbolt: Tom has it, I see
Gordon Swain: ;
Julianne Rainbolt: p=?
Russell Blyth: p= ? for b
Jen Roche: 3
Julianne Rainbolt: n=?
Jen Roche: n=4
Shaochen Yang: 3
Tom Hoffman: 4
Gordon Swain: 5 (on Thursday)
Julianne Rainbolt: 
Julianne Rainbolt: video off
Julianne Rainbolt: back on pm2 shortly
Julianne Rainbolt: Next thing will be Ed and Bill's project
Julianne Rainbolt: video is up
Russell Blyth: ok ed and bill?
Edward Moy: ok!
Bill Abrams: ok
Benjamin Collins: Do we have a handout for Ed and Bill?
3:05 PM
Gordon Williams: vidlink?
Julianne Rainbolt: coming right up
Daniel Shown: rtsp://165.134.240.35/GAP060713pm2.sdp
Russell Blyth: will put the handout on the website this evening
Russell Blyth: handouts!
Bill Abrams: We hope to get slightly more 'proofed' copies before they are posted.
Russell Blyth: first of their three handouts is showing
Bill Abrams: We couldn't really decide on a single project.
3:10 PM
Julianne Rainbolt: Please commentate and/or give us directions
Edward Moy: Try 3 and 7.
3:15 PM
Bill Abrams: You are doing a great job.
Edward Moy: This helps to find possible order of nonabelian simple group.
Julianne Rainbolt: Yes, and it's quite a project!
Tom Hoffman: you can just print the function name to see it in the Gap window
3:20 PM
Tom Hoffman: Print(Assoc);
Bill Abrams: Thanks Tom - I wondered how to do that.
Bill Abrams: m
Edward Moy: g was GL(3,2).
3:25 PM
Julianne Rainbolt: video going down
Julianne Rainbolt: will be pm3
Bill Abrams: It just occured to me that the last couple of routines have to check both sides, it currently only checks one.
Dennis Keeler: Do we know we're working inside a larger group? If not, then it seems we might need to check both left and right inverses.
Julianne Rainbolt: up
Bill Abrams: (I beat you by seconds.)
Dennis Keeler: possible in noncomm ring theory to have elements invertible on only one side
Dennis Keeler: My typing was longer 
Daniel Shown: rtsp://165.134.240.35/GAP060713pm1.sdp
Julianne Rainbolt: So the routine can be updated to check both sides
Julianne Rainbolt: Video IS up
Tom Hoffman: pm3
Daniel Shown: sorry rtsp://165.134.240.35/GAP060713pm3.sdp
Bill Abrams: We will update and send new ones.
Julianne Rainbolt: great
Bill Abrams: So AsGroup would be the one to use? That checks if it is a group?
Russell Blyth: yes
Bill Abrams: So when would you use IsGroup?
Bill Abrams: The rest is just another ex.
Tom Hoffman: if you want to check if an object in Gap is a group or something else (like a list)
Dennis Keeler: Might need a boolean answer.
Bill Abrams: Ahhh
3:30 PM
Bill Abrams: 1.1 by hand, yes
Bill Abrams: It doesn't really help pedagogically unless \sigma can be in S_n
3:35 PM
Bill Abrams: That needs to be written in - Sorry
Tom Hoffman: You can use LargestMovedPoint to make the function fail if n is too small.
Bill Abrams: Trying to motivate the more bizarre idea of length.
Daylene Zielinski: My advison used to say the calculation (insert typing) is like sex. You shouldn't do it in public.
Russell Blyth: conjectures?
Bill Abrams: Sorry, the list of numbers should not be there - I had removed it in the last version, but was using it for debugging
Tom Hoffman: If you want to see what to input, just type CountMovement; This is a nice feature of Gap that encourages you to name your input variables in a helpfule manner.
Bill Abrams: Sorry - I think you have a nonworking version of the last routine.
3:40 PM
Russell Blyth: ed and bill anything else?
Bill Abrams: Should have waited until tomorrow
Edward Moy: This should give the students a lot to think about.
Gordon Swain: I liked all of those. The first one will be useful in a seminar on "finite Simple Groups"
Russell Blyth: will do jen and chiru project now ok?
Chirashree Bhattacharya: ok
Jen Roche: yes, okay!
Jen Roche: that's it
3:45 PM
Anne Collins: okay
Julianne Rainbolt: video going down
Julianne Rainbolt: audio down
Russell Blyth: switch video to pm4
Dennis Keeler: I'm not getting audio, only video
Brian Walter has joined this chat.
Bill Abrams: as am I
Julianne Rainbolt: tomorrow we will finish chiru's and jen's project, do the other two participant projects and then continue with the sections starting with section 15
Russell Blyth: Batteries reversed!
Jen Roche: still nothing here
Russell Blyth: Should have sound in 5 sec
Dennis Keeler: got it
Jen Roche: got it 2
Benjamin Collins: Yup
Bill Abrams: There we go.
Gordon Swain: Lovely
Julianne Rainbolt: of course - if there are things we have not discussed but would like to see let us know
Edward Moy: Everything a go.
Dennis Keeler: don't forget xgap
Gordon Williams: vlink?
Brian Walter: i'm just fine - thanks
Dennis Keeler: rtsp://165.134.240.35/GAP060713pm4.sdp
Russell Blyth: rtsp://165.134.240.35/GAP060713pm4.sdp
3:50 PM
Chirashree Bhattacharya: D^{-1} is the sum of the inverses of elements in D
Tom Hoffman: Is this the integral group ring?
Chirashree Bhattacharya: 0,1 coeffs
Chirashree Bhattacharya: subroutines in ver2
3:55 PM
Jen Roche: (any list in this case of six indices)
Jen Roche: right
Tom Hoffman: For longer lists you can do list2:=[1..n]; will give you the list from one up to n without all the typing.
Tom Hoffman: to grab a sublist you could also do D:=c16{[1..6]};
4:00 PM
Chirashree Bhattacharya: thanks tom, what if i want say the 5th, 7th and 3rd element etc. of c16?
Jen Roche: you'd have to look at the list of elements in S
Tom Hoffman: If they are not consecutive, it is much more difficult
Chirashree Bhattacharya: would love to have a counting type function
Russell Blyth: [5,7,3]
Tom Hoffman: {[5,7,3]}?
Russell Blyth: yes, sorry
Russell Blyth: bye
Russell Blyth: video off
Daylene Zielinski: Thanks everyone!
Julianne Rainbolt: chat will stay open for awhile
Gordon Swain: Bye.
Chirashree Bhattacharya: thanks
Dennis Keeler: bye
Gordon Swain has left this chat.
Daylene Zielinski has left this chat.
Shaochen Yang has left this chat.
Dennis Keeler has left this chat.
Chirashree Bhattacharya has left this chat.
Benjamin Collins has left this chat.
Russell Blyth: vnc off
Tom Hoffman has left this chat.
Daniel Shown has left this chat.
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4:05 PM
Edward Moy: Juli, do you always use GAP whenever you teach abstrat algebra with Gallian's book?
Julianne Rainbolt: yes I have been using it in my classes for about the past 8 years
Julianne Rainbolt: I use it about once ever other week to do a project
Edward Moy: I think it is a great piece of software to students learn abstract algebra. However, I'm not sure that a lot of people use GAP when they teach it, even when Gallian is the text. Even at SIUE and U of I in Urbana, I believe, don't.
Gordon Williams has left this chat.
Julianne Rainbolt: I think it is fairly unusual in general to use software in an upper division math course
Julianne Rainbolt: that is, a junior/senior level course
4:10 PM
Edward Moy: But this is probably the most difficult math course for math majors.
Bill Abrams: To the extent you use this stuff in class you probably get better learning but not as much covered. I think that after the firsgt couple of sessions, you could just give them them the assignments and let them ask questions in class
Edward Moy: You are probably right, Bill.
Julianne Rainbolt: yes, after the first couple of session I just introduce the projects and then they complete them outside of class
Bill Abrams: See you all tomorrow.
Bill Abrams has left this chat.
Julianne Rainbolt: the end up liking the projects at the end of the semester because the grades on GAP projects tend to pull up their overall average a little
4:15 PM