AIM Chat with Bill Abrams , Chirashree Bhattacharya , Anne Collins , Benjamin Collins , Tom Hoffman , Dennis Keeler, Julianne Rainbolt , Jen Roche , Daniel Shown , Brian Walter , Gordon Williams , Shaochen Yang , Daylene Zielinski .
2:21 PM
Russell Blyth: welcome back
Daylene Zielinski has declined the invitation to this chat.
Julianne Rainbolt: hi all
Daniel Shown: hello
Chirashree Bhattacharya: hi
Tom Hoffman: hi
Julianne Rainbolt: QT is not up yet
Benjamin Collins: Good afternoon.
Gordon Swain has joined this chat.
Russell Blyth: VNC *is* up
Julianne Rainbolt: vnc address: 165.134.13.231
Edward Moy has joined this chat.
Julianne Rainbolt: QT not up yet
Julianne Rainbolt: vnc address: 165.134.13.231
Julianne Rainbolt: QT not up
Russell Blyth: we can establish short-term separate chats for each group - I will invite the members of each group to a separate chat. Exchange contact info (email and/or screen name).
2:25 PM
Julianne Rainbolt: vnc address: 165.134.13.231
Daniel Shown: QT is up at rtsp://165.134.240.35/GAP060711pm1.sdp
Russell Blyth: QT up on pm1
Julianne Rainbolt: any QT or
Julianne Rainbolt: VNC problesm
Julianne Rainbolt: ?
Benjamin Collins: Tom and I are already chatting.
Russell Blyth: Daylene, QT and VNC are up.
Bill Abrams: I got an error when I tried to join the Chat.
2:30 PM
Julianne Rainbolt has left this chat.
Julianne Rainbolt has joined this chat.
Julianne Rainbolt: i'm back
Russell Blyth: Daylene, we're setting up separate group chats for a few minutes
Benjamin Collins: So somebody is going to put something together in 36 hours?
2:35 PM
Benjamin Collins: Whew!
Tom Hoffman: No grades?
Jen Roche: no way!
Russell Blyth: We'll give this a couple more minutes
Gordon Swain: I'm getting nothing in QT - is it up?
Russell Blyth: then we'll restart with next section
Russell Blyth: GS: yes
Russell Blyth: ..pm1
Russell Blyth: rtsp://165.134.240.35/GAP060711pm1.sdp
Gordon Swain: I'll restart again
2:40 PM
Brian Walter: i'm often the troublemaker
Brian Walter: i'm the only one on the west coast? sheesh
Gordon Williams: Not my fault, hard to find two jobs on the west coast
Dennis Keeler: liquid hot MAGMA. (Finger to lip.)
Tom Hoffman: I'd take a job on the west coast
Russell Blyth: we are going to start section6
Russell Blyth: any QT or VNC problems?
Julianne Rainbolt: Gordon S, do you have QT?
Brian Walter: daylene still isn't in this chat
Julianne Rainbolt: OK, please have her quit AIM
2:45 PM
Gordon Swain: I have some sound, but not video. I'll try again
Julianne Rainbolt: OK
Julianne Rainbolt: Yay
Daylene Zielinski: I'm here!
Julianne Rainbolt: Yes, that's great
Julianne Rainbolt: Do you have QT?
2:50 PM
Julianne Rainbolt: QT down for a minute
Julianne Rainbolt: will be ..pm2
Julianne Rainbolt: rtsp://165.134.240.35/GAP060711pm2.sdp
Julianne Rainbolt: up
Daniel Shown: rtsp://165.134.240.35/GAP060711pm2.sdp
Julianne Rainbolt: anyone not OK?
Tom Hoffman: I only have half a picture
Julianne Rainbolt: it will come in, else retry
Tom Hoffman: it's all there now
Julianne Rainbolt: OK!
2:55 PM
Gordon Williams: I know a cludgy way to work with generators a,b and so on that you enter as a and b and so on, is there a non-cludgy way?
Gordon Williams: instead of all this f.n stuff?
Julianne Rainbolt: What is your cludgy way?
Gordon Williams: a:=f.1
Gordon Williams: b:=f.2
Julianne Rainbolt: right, that works
Gordon Williams: but symbols don't always seem to carry over to quotients
Julianne Rainbolt: right
Gordon Williams: so that's cludgy, cause then I have to do it again
Gordon Williams: qt dropped
Dennis Keeler: qt dropped me too
Jen Roche: me too
Tom Hoffman: me three
Julianne Rainbolt: Should be back
Benjamin Collins: Me 2
Bill Abrams: four?
Gordon Williams: perhaps I shouldn't have asked that question
Brian Walter: yeah - so it seems like a question of changing how GAP represents these elements internally
Jen Roche: i'm back
Gordon Williams: back
Tom Hoffman: back
Dennis Keeler: back
Bill Abrams: back
Tom Hoffman: did we miss something?
Gordon Williams: so, can you repeat your discussion about my question?
3:00 PM
Gordon Williams: thanks
Chirashree Bhattacharya: f.1^-2?
Julianne Rainbolt: yes, it actually works
Julianne Rainbolt: thanks
Julianne Rainbolt: for spotting the typo
Brian Walter: we need f.1^-2, not f.2^-2
Julianne Rainbolt: yep
Brian Walter: looks good now
3:05 PM
Tom Hoffman: qt froze again
Gordon Williams: Lists are good: gList:=List([3,6,24,300],n->f/[f.1^n,f.2^2,f.2^-1*f.1^-1*f.2*f.1^2]); List(gList,x->Order(x));
Julianne Rainbolt: yes
Julianne Rainbolt: QT seems OK here, anyone else?
Gordon Williams: I'm good on qt
Julianne Rainbolt: Thanks
Julianne Rainbolt: Tom, try restarting QT
Tom Hoffman: back up
Julianne Rainbolt: good
Gordon Williams: just providing as an alternative
Gordon Williams: wouldn't use with beginning student
Jen Roche: Z_2?
Russell Blyth: yes
Gordon Williams: Z_2? Doesn't that have order 2?
Russell Blyth: the answer to 6.4c
Shaochen Yang: S_3 for part b
Gordon Swain: A_4?
Gordon Williams: ahh, lost track
3:10 PM
Jen Roche: D_3 + Z_2?
Gordon Williams: D_6
Chirashree Bhattacharya: semidirect prod?
Dennis Keeler: http://www.math.usf.edu/~eclark/algctlg/small_groups.htmlhas a long explanation of the 3rd non-abelian group
Jen Roche: It's A_4 using "IsomorphismGroups(G,a4);"
Gordon Swain: Just a guess - only one I could think of.
Gordon Williams: can drag and drop the file onto the terminal window
3:15 PM
Gordon Williams: full path will be pasted
Anne Collins: works in linux too
Julianne Rainbolt: great!
Julianne Rainbolt: We're going to restart GAP
3:20 PM
Julianne Rainbolt: Stop QT
Julianne Rainbolt: will restart with ..pm3 soon
Dennis Keeler: FYI, there is some randomness in IsomorphismGroups. I get a different answer each time for IsomorphismGroups(G,AlternatingGroup(4));
Dennis Keeler: Of course all correct, but may confuse students.
Tom Hoffman: The randomness is what allows it to work quickly.
Anne Collins: well, at least it's not randomly failing against D_6
Daniel Shown: rtsp://165.134.240.35/GAP060711pm3.sdp
Daniel Shown: is up
3:25 PM
Russell Blyth: anybody having QT or VNC problems?
Julianne Rainbolt: Everyone OK
Gordon Swain: OK
Tom Hoffman: ok here
Benjamin Collins has left this chat.
Chirashree Bhattacharya: wow! StructureD
Russell Blyth: don't let your students know that one
Gordon Swain: That was too easy!
Dennis Keeler: This is cool: List(AllSmallGroups(12),StructureDescription);
Brian Walter: that is cool
3:30 PM
Julianne Rainbolt: In case you are wondering, here's what the GAP manual says about left cosets:
3:35 PM
Julianne Rainbolt: GAP does not provide left cosets as a separate data type,
Julianne Rainbolt: but as the left coset gU consists of exactly the inverses of the elements of the right coset Ug^-1 calculations with left cosets can be emulated using right cosets by inverting the representatives
Benjamin Collins has joined this chat.
Julianne Rainbolt: welcome back
Benjamin Collins: Thanks. What QT are we on?
Julianne Rainbolt: video is pm3
3:40 PM
Tom Hoffman: Display also works instead of PrintArray
Daylene Zielinski: Please do; I would be very interested in that.
Russell Blyth: ok daylene will do
Russell Blyth: QT is off
Julianne Rainbolt: qt up
Daniel Shown: rtsp://165.134.240.35/GAP060711pm4.sdp
Gordon Swain: Question: If I deefine the factor group using FactorGroup then look at Elements, they are just f1, etc. Any way to get these as coset reps?
Russell Blyth: i have not be able to do this - that is why I also use the rightcoset commands in this section
3:45 PM
Gordon Swain: but the Table refers to these elements, not the cosets
Dennis Keeler: If I understand, the table doesn't refer to f1, f2, etc, but just numbers each element.
Gordon Swain: Yes, but how do we know which fn is which coset?
Tom Hoffman: The numbers might match the position in the list returned by Elements
Gordon Swain: I assumed that the order was the same as Elements
3:50 PM
Gordon Swain: I guess it would be a good exercise to tax the poor students
Russell Blyth: homework 7.3 - 7.5
3:55 PM
Anne Collins: anyone else's audio get really crunchy?
Benjamin Collins: It's OK here.
Gordon Swain: me too
Gordon Williams: ok here
Julianne Rainbolt: any questions, comments?
4:00 PM
Daylene Zielinski has left this chat.
Julianne Rainbolt: qt down
Dennis Keeler has left this chat.
Chirashree Bhattacharya: see u tomorrow
Jen Roche: thanks!
Jen Roche has left this chat.
Benjamin Collins has left this chat.
Chirashree Bhattacharya has left this chat.
Tom Hoffman: bye
Russell Blyth: Thanks
Tom Hoffman has left this chat.
Gordon Williams: night
Gordon Williams has left this chat.
Anne Collins: bye
Gordon Swain: What if you define the homom using non generators?
Bill Abrams: Thanks, see you tomorrow.
Shaochen Yang has left this chat.
Julianne Rainbolt: does it fail - let's try it
Anne Collins: i bet it fails?
Gordon Swain: I tried it and got a failure, but not an error
Russell Blyth: Fail - look in VNC
Julianne Rainbolt: yes - russell also got fial
Julianne Rainbolt: fail not fial
Gordon Swain: I tried 3 generators
Julianne Rainbolt: did it fail?
Gordon Swain: yes
Anne Collins: i'm still a bit unsure what we're going for in our groups
Bill Abrams: Me too.
Anne Collins: are we putting together a demo/worksheet to use with our students?
Gordon Swain has left this chat.
Brian Walter has left this chat.
Russell Blyth: You are doing a first run at something that can turn into a worksheet
Julianne Rainbolt: that's ok anne - the goal is to come up with something you could use in one of your classes
Russell Blyth: or a demo
4:05 PM
Russell Blyth: More important is to do *something* of interest
Julianne Rainbolt: once you write up what you come up with,
Julianne Rainbolt: send it to us
Julianne Rainbolt: then we will show it to everyone
Russell Blyth: and to get a first go at using GAP yourself
Russell Blyth: it does not have to be polished
Anne Collins: but no color on cayley tables, huh?
Julianne Rainbolt: go for it
Russell Blyth: not in GAP
Julianne Rainbolt: color is extra extra credit
Julianne Rainbolt: you will see the colored cosets in Finite Group Behavior on friday
Anne Collins: 'k!
Bill Abrams: Thanks for the clarification.
Bill Abrams has left this chat.
4:10 PM
Edward Moy has left this chat.
Julianne Rainbolt: anne any other questions/comments?