PREP - Professional Enhancement Programs of the MAA


Abstract Algebra with GAP

A PREP Workshop

AIM log - Friday July 18, 2:30 pm - 4:00 pm

Math and Computer Science: hi, silvia!
Silvia La Falce: Hi! I'm glad I'm back!
Math and Computer Science: so are we
Juli Rainbolt: stand by - nothing is broadcasting yet
Donna Nonnenkamp: Silvia was it your network card
Dominic Soda has joined this chat.
Silvia La Falce: it seems that the computer lost power overnight
brooksbankpa has left this chat.
Tracy Hamilton has joined this chat.
Silvia La Falce: and that messed up the setup. The IDE controller was somehow messed up
brooksbankpa has joined this chat.
Silvia La Falce: and there were tons of conflict with the different devices.
Silvia La Falce: Now everything seems to be OK
Donna Nonnenkamp: good silvia
Juli Rainbolt: vnc has started
2:25PM
Juli Rainbolt: quicktime has started
Meral Arnavut has joined this chat.
janetlbeery has joined this chat.
sklarjk has joined this chat.
2:30PM
Dominic Soda: It is getting very dark again
Donna Nonnenkamp: video is rtsp://165.134.240.33/video0718p.sdp and audio is rtsp://165.134.240.33/audio0718p.sdp
2:35PM
Dominic Soda: The "fancy calculator" helps cement some of the concepts
Robert Talbert: What's the learning curve for GAP been like on the students' part? I am assuming they have experience with maple/mathematica types of programs -- does it take them
Robert Talbert: a while to get the hang of GAP?
Dominic Soda: Can students use GAP on tests?
Robert Talbert: I.e. how long does it typically take them to get fluent with GAP?
2:40PM
Robert Talbert: well, in a relative sense 
Ken Yanosko: Do your students download their own copies of GAP? Could I reasonably ask them to do this and expect them to use it for regular homework?
Carter Lyons: Over the past several years I have been giving a takehome part to every inclass exam. The takehome part is due one week after the inclass exam. I am hoping to implement GAP on the take home parts.
Peter Brooksbank: do you have some examples of these questions Russell?
2:45PM
Ken Yanosko has left this chat.
2:50PM
Ken Yanosko has joined this chat.
Dominic Soda: I think GAP will help with applications like RSA Encryption
Janet Beery: That was very helpful. Thanks---although I'd still like to know what your favorite projects are!
2:55PM
Robert Talbert: dominic -- RSA could be a little tricky with GAP because raising numbers to very large powers doesn't always work...
Peter Brooksbank: yes -- it introduces groups in a very concrete setting.
Robert Talbert: I just tried raising a four-digit number to a 13-digit number power and it wasn't happy.
Donna Nonnenkamp: changing the battery in the microphone
Robert Talbert: Unless there is a "PowerMod" command like on mathematica, doing authentic RSA calculations may not be possible.
Dominic Soda: There is a power mod function
Peter Brooksbank: Modular exponentiation is fine in GAP I think.
Ken Yanosko: There is something like that, but I forget what it is. I have done this in Number theory classes.
Robert Talbert: Hey, it
Robert Talbert: Hey it's "PowerMod". How about that.
Ken Yanosko: PowerModInt
3:05PM
Ken Yanosko has left this chat.
Math and Computer Science: That was Ken calling - his LAN went down suddenly. We hope he will return shortly
3:10PM
Dominic Soda: I'm not sure I follow how you chose the generators?
Dominic Soda: yes
Dominic Soda: Is my diagram different?
Math and Computer Science: perhaps it is - Juli has an exact copy of the diagram
Math and Computer Science: on the board
Carter Lyons: Maybe drawng the axes of rotation will clear it up.
Dominic Soda: I was looking at the picture differently thanks
3:15PM
Tong Wu has joined this chat.
Dominic Soda: Labeling front and back would help I had them reversed
Math and Computer Science: Tong, Juli is on Section 15, 15.1- 15.5 are done,
Math and Computer Science: She will start 15.6 next
Donna Nonnenkamp: changing tapes
Donna Nonnenkamp: new tape installed --thanks for your patience
Tong Wu: Thanks, We had a meeting
Peter Brooksbank: In 15.7, should the 5 be a 10? i.e. S_{10}?
Math and Computer Science: yes
Peter Brooksbank: thanks.
Math and Computer Science: Thank you!
Donna Nonnenkamp: Tong video is rtsp://165.134.240.33/video0718p.sdp and audio is rtsp://165.134.240.33/audio0718p.sdp
3:20PM
Tong Wu: I got the video
3:25PM
Janet McShane: In front of the last 7
Silvia La Falce: you have an extra ( before the last 7
3:35PM
Dominic Soda: is the index zero based?
Dominic Soda: thanks
Peter Brooksbank: Conjecture: for the n-prism, symmetry group is D_n if n is odd, and D_{n/2} x C_2 if n is even?
Dominic Soda: Can you force the groups to be perm groups?
Dominic Soda: I'll look
Peter Brooksbank: GAP likes PC groups best of all. But you can use IsomorphismPermGroup( <gp> ) to get the image of your generators in some permutation domain.
3:40PM
Peter Brooksbank: Oh I think you have to use the Image command or something...I'll play.
Robert Talbert: Image did it.
Dominic Soda: Thanks
Peter Brooksbank: great
Peter Brooksbank: you can use SmallerDegreePermutationRepresentation,
Ken Yanosko has joined this chat.
Donna Nonnenkamp: Hi Ken
Math and Computer Science: welcome back, Ken
Math and Computer Science: Juli is about to start section 17
3:45PM
Ken Yanosko: thanks
Peter Brooksbank: it says <action epimorphism> which leads me to believe it doesn't always give you a faithful rep, but it appears to in this case.
Math and Computer Science: I sent the manual entries to the list
3:50PM
Math and Computer Science: Anticipating a question - Section 37.16 gives a list of various subgroup series that GAP computes
3:55PM
Silvia La Falce: are you planning in making the audio and/or video available as well in the future?
Silvia La Falce: thanks!
Peter Brooksbank: Everyone at St Louis: thanks so much for all your hard work; it's been a very informative workshop.
Dana Vazzana: hear, hear
Dominic Soda: Thanks for this great workshop!
Janet Beery: Applause from participants
Jessica Sklar: Thanks! 
Robert Talbert: <*applause*?
Meral Arnavut: Thanks!
Silvia La Falce: Thanks so much! How do we applaude in IM? 
Ken Yanosko: Yes, thank you all.
Robert Talbert: I mean <*applause*> 
Tracy Hamilton: thanks  great work
Carter Lyons: Good Job all around!
Janet McShane: Many thanks!
Janet Beery: Thank you very much! I'm sure I'll have many more questions as the fall semester approaches...
Jessica Sklar: Bye!
Tracy Hamilton: See you in January!
Tong Wu: Thanks!
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This PREP workshop is made possible by the NSF grant DUE: 0089005