9:55AM
Juli Rainbolt: stand by we will start soon
Dominic Soda: hello again
Robert Talbert: Hopefully I won't have to log off -- we have some strong t-storms moving through here (Indianapolis) right now.
Janet McShane has joined this chat.
Dominic Soda: which way are the storms going?
Ronald Biggers has joined this chat.
Robert Talbert: Dsoda -- Southeast. The worst is around Terre Haute and Bloomington.
Tracy Hamilton has joined this chat.
Dominic Soda: Thanks we are west in St. Charles MO
Juli Rainbolt: VNC and Quicktime has started
Donna Nonnenkamp: The IP for vnc is the same as yesterday 165.134.240.33 For the audio feed start quicktime -file -open url in new player and then type in the following-do not click on the link rtsp://165.134.240.33/audio0715a.sdp
Donna Nonnenkamp: wrong ip for vnc
Donna Nonnenkamp: 165.134.131.27
Juli Rainbolt: link for video: rtsp://165.134.240.33/video0715a.sdp
10:00AM
Tong Wu has joined this chat.
Ayan Mahalanobis has joined this chat.
Donna Nonnenkamp: Again for vnc use ip 165.134.131.27
Tong Wu: hi
janetlbeery has joined this chat.
sklarjk has joined this chat.
Math and Computer Science: vnc 165.134.131.27
Math and Computer Science: link for video: rtsp://165.134.240.33/video0715a.sdp
Donna Nonnenkamp: please type the url in for audio -once it is running then type in the url for video . you will have two quicktime windows open Do not click on the links rtsp://165.134.240.33/audio0715a.sdp
Math and Computer Science: any problems?
Math and Computer Science: any questions?
Donna Nonnenkamp: We will give you a few minutes to start your programs. Juli will soon open gap. We are waiting for two people to join the chat room.
Carter Lyons: I actually never enter an audio link. When I get on the video link the audio is already there.
drvazz: same here
10:05AM
Donna Nonnenkamp: That is fine- the audio link is a backup just in case
Dominic Soda: Did you mean section 6 versus chapter 6?
Donna Nonnenkamp: yes section 6
Ken Yanosko: I think you sent the wrong "Ch 6" file. It is about Isomorphisms, not Factor groups.
Donna Nonnenkamp: It is the correct file on the website
Janet McShane: I am having trouble getting the files via the web site.
Math and Computer Science: what trouble?
Janet McShane: Nothing comes up when I click on the various files.
Dominic Soda: My copy of section 6 was fine from yesterday, did you make any changes?
10:10AM
Math and Computer Science: stick with yesterday's if it's OK
Donna Nonnenkamp: Janet- are you using a pc or a mac?
Math and Computer Science: Janet, try holding down the control key when clicking on the link,
Math and Computer Science: or right click on the link
Dominic Soda: Why the w:=[]?
Robert Talbert: The section 2 handout says "return w(g)". is that a typo, and should be "return w" like in the sylow subroutine?
Janet McShane: None of those things work. I can open up the gap files like orderfrequency but not the Section files.
Math and Computer Science: the section files are pdf files
Donna Nonnenkamp: What browser are you using? IE or Netscape?
Robert Talbert: I'm a little uncertain where the "g" parameter comes in to line 4 of that subroutine. Seems like it should.
brooksbankpa: looks like w is a function, not a list?
Math and Computer Science: do you have have Adobe Acrobat Reader installed?
Dominic Soda: it shouldn't work, the local function was nver called
Janet McShane: IE and I am on a PC
Donna Nonnenkamp: Do you have adobe acrobat installed?
10:15AM
Robert Talbert: OK, I get it. You define w as a function first and then plug the g into it.
Janet McShane: Yes I have Adobe Acrobat installed. I can access the files via e-mail so I have the files. I just didn't know if it was a universal problem or just a problem with me.
Math and Computer Science: Janet M, do you have the correct section 6 file? I could email it.
Math and Computer Science: Section 6 - Factor Groups
Janet McShane: I have the correct one from yesterday and it printed off fine for me.
Math and Computer Science: great!
Ayan Mahalanobis: anyone having problem with audio and video?
Donna Nonnenkamp: Janet -It seems to be a problem on your computer. If you have netscape installed, you might try accessing the website using netscape instead of IE -
Robert Talbert: While we're waiting, I have a pedagogical question...
Math and Computer Science: yes
Robert Talbert: Do you all have your students try writing these subroutines themselves?
Silvia La Falce has joined this chat.
Robert Talbert: (Not these two specifically -- I mean do you have them write subroutines as HW to accomplish specific tasks)
Math and Computer Science: Silvia, we've just been discussing q's left over from yesterday
Silvia La Falce: Yes, I've been following through audio and
Silvia La Falce: VNC
Math and Computer Science: great
Donna Nonnenkamp: Silvia- we are using the same IP for vnc as yesterday 165.134.131.27
Dominic Soda: my audio fall all the time but i bring it back quickly. i turned the video off.
Silvia La Falce: all is working fine for me, thanks!
10:20AM
Donna Nonnenkamp: Dominic ok
Donna Nonnenkamp: Silvia -good
drvazz: Do you meet in a computer classroom with your students?
brooksbankpa: are all class meetings at the terminal?
Math and Computer Science: no for me
Janet McShane: The netscape worked. Thanks!
Donna Nonnenkamp: Janet great!
Meral Arnavut has joined this chat.
Meral Arnavut: Thank you!! I am in..
Math and Computer Science: good
Donna Nonnenkamp: Meral do you need help getting connected?
brooksbankpa: so there are ample computers available in the department with GAP installed?
Math and Computer Science: yes - on Macs rather than Unix
brooksbankpa: thanks.
Math and Computer Science: Actually, we've also used remote connections to a Unix version
Meral Arnavut: I am OK.
Math and Computer Science: Which allows students to log in from any terminal App
Math and Computer Science: The class is small enough that setting up accounts on a Unix machine
Math and Computer Science: is not a big hassle
brooksbankpa: I see
10:25AM
Dominic Soda: maybe because you are already logging?
drvazz: works ok here, anyway
Tracy Hamilton: I had a similar problem and had to quit gap and restart
Robert Talbert has left this chat.
10:30AM
Donna Nonnenkamp: InputLogTo( name-file ) O causes the subsequent input to be logged to the file with the name name-file, i.e., everything youtype on your terminal will also appear in this file. Note that InputLogTo and LogTo cannot be
Donna Nonnenkamp: used at the same time while InputLogTo and OutputLogTo can. Note that InputLogTo willoverwrite the previous contents of this file if it already existed.
Math and Computer Science: that's from the manual
10:35AM
sklarjk: My computer saves the file as type "file", rather than as a text file, and then GAP can't read it in.
Carter Lyons: So is this just a text file?
sklarjk: Well, it doesn't save as one on my PC.
Dominic Soda: how is InputLogTo different from LogTo?
sklarjk: Not on the PC DOS version, it appears.
Math and Computer Science: it saves only the input stream
sklarjk: It's not a text file.
Math and Computer Science: LogTo saves both the input and the output
Math and Computer Science: OutputLogTo saves only the output stream
Carter Lyons: I have lost audio and video.
10:40AM
Carter Lyons: A restart of quicktime solve the problem
Donna Nonnenkamp: Carter -good
Jim Woeppel: I am getting a error when I read newfunction
drvazz: couldn't hear you, Russell
sklarjk: It doesn't work for me because the file isn't automatically saved as a text file.
sklarjk: It's in the gap4r3/bin directory, but is in the wrong format.
sklarjk: Sigh...
Math and Computer Science: right, can someone for whom it is working say so, please
brooksbankpa: it works on UNIX
Math and Computer Science: it works on Mac
Math and Computer Science: how about someone on a PC?
Silvia La Falce: it's working for me in a PC
Tracy Hamilton: I am having a lot of trouble with this. The files were saved to the bin file (just as we thought they should be yesterday). I closed gap and they read okay, but then I closed gap again and it couldn't read them anymore
Jim Woeppel: No, I am getting an error from a line in the function
Dominic Soda: as usual all the problems on windog
Silvia La Falce: I have all the files in the Gap4r3 folder with no extensions
Janet McShane: When I did newfunction myself it saved it correctly and I was able to read it in. But the files from yesterday (like sylows) are saved in a different format and are not working.
Silvia La Falce: it's working also now for sylows and orderFrequency, with no .txt extension, and in the Gap4r3 folder, not in the bin folder.
sklarjk: Sorry, I can't hear Russell, though I heard my name.
drvazz: for some reason, even when I change the file extension, orderfrequency keeps saving as a text file, and Gap doesn't like it.
Tracy Hamilton: I've tried putting these files everywhere--I don't think it's going to work.
sklarjk: No, they have to be in the bin directory to be read. That's the way it worked yesterday.
10:45AM
Tracy Hamilton: gap is in the bin directory
drvazz: the newfunction one works fine, but it is not showing up as a text file
Robert Talbert has joined this chat.
Janet McShane: Ok if I go in and remove the .txt then sylows works fine.
Ken Yanosko: If your f iles have ".txt" extensions, try reading them that way.
drvazz: tried it
drvazz: didn't work
Tracy Hamilton: i just got it to read order frequency!! finally!
Robert Talbert: Hi everyone -- remember what I said earlier about bad weather in my neck of the woods? LIghtning just knocked out my connection for ~15 minutes. I think I'm OK now.
Ken Yanosko: yes, I can read "xxxx.txt", for example
Tracy Hamilton: I left it in the bin directory, but typed in Read("orderFrequency.txt");
Donna Nonnenkamp: Robert -glad you are back
brooksbankpa: By the way, when Russell comes closer, the audio feed really clears up. This happened yesterday too. Is one microphone close to a computer's ventilation?
Ken Yanosko: Also, on a pc, you can just create a function with notepad and then "Read" it in.
Donna Nonnenkamp: We are going to switch tapes also
Tracy Hamilton: on my pc I got it to work by using the InputLogTo, it saved to bin folder in .txt format and then used Read("*.txt"); it seems to be working for now
Carter Lyons: My video says the broadcast ahs been paused. Is this true?
Donna Nonnenkamp: yes
10:50AM
Math and Computer Science: video should be fine now
Carter Lyons: It is running for me.
10:55AM
brooksbankpa: Aside: should not expect IsomorphismGroups to work too well (i.e. quickly) when the groups get large.
Robert Talbert: Does this function just find the generators of the groups and map a generator onto a generator? I.e. is this function based on the "GeneratorsOf" function we looked at yesterday?
Silvia La Falce: can you ask GAP to verify whether the mapping of f1 to f2 and l1 to l2 extends to an isomorphism?
Ken Yanosko: Yes. GAP must do this by an exhaustive search.
Ayan Mahalanobis: Does it depends on the fact that the groups are iso groups?
Ayan Mahalanobis: Sorry perm group!
Silvia La Falce: sure, no problem.
brooksbankpa: the method will be *much* quicker for perm groups
Ayan Mahalanobis: If not say matrix then how does it work.
11:00AM
Robert Talbert: Question -- I tried entering in "Order(f.1)" and the program is thinking really hard. Why doesn't it just say "3"?
brooksbankpa: Do you ever discuss the problems GAP has with this representation with your students?
Robert Talbert: When I hit ctrl-c to interrupt, it says "user interrupt at MakeImmutable(a);" etc.
Ken Yanosko: isn't f.1 an element of the free group? so it has infinute order.
Ayan Mahalanobis: f1 is a element of G as well.
Robert Talbert: Good call, Ken 
11:05AM
Robert Talbert: Wait -- if you enter in Order(G.1) it says 3.
Robert Talbert: So capitalize the G
brooksbankpa: f1 is not in G according to GAP...
Ayan Mahalanobis: So what are the generators of G in GAP?
brooksbankpa: G.1 and G.2
Ayan Mahalanobis: Ok thanks.
Dominic Soda: a5
brooksbankpa: A5
Robert Talbert: Aren't all groups of order 60 just z60? (Kidding!)
brooksbankpa: can solve the word problem in the image group?
11:10AM
Ayan Mahalanobis: Words in what?
brooksbankpa: to figure out what the image of a and b are
Ayan Mahalanobis: then we got to guess gens in A5.
11:15AM
Tracy Hamilton: I used orderFrequency to determine whether there were any elements of order 6
Ayan Mahalanobis: Is there any command like IsCyclic
Robert Talbert: Yes, IsCyclic(G) works well
brooksbankpa: yes
Math and Computer Science: feel free to say slow down - if you want us to.
brooksbankpa: you can also use command completion on GAP if you think there should be a function with a certain name
Dominic Soda: why not use a for "a" etc?
brooksbankpa: a typically used for variables?
11:20AM
brooksbankpa: do the students ever conjecture, at this stage, that order statistics give a "signature" for the group?
11:25AM
Math and Computer Science: is that light enough - on the board?
brooksbankpa: looks great
drvazz: good
11:30AM
brooksbankpa: I can't remember whether or not there are situations where GAP concludes that an fp group *is* infinite?