sklarjk: Is there any way of making GAP do perms from right to left instead?
Math and Computer Science: no
Math and Computer Science: the software was developed with a "functions on the right" philosophy
drvazz: Can you write the numbers bigger?
sklarjk: Yeah, I remembered that from using it before. It's too bad that's so unstandard, at lesat for American undergrads...
Donna Nonnenkamp: Will do juli is writing the numbers bigger!
Math and Computer Science: they seem to adjust just fine
Math and Computer Science: and it may even even them think about what they are doing more carefully
sklarjk: Do you teach all perms from left to right in your classes, to be consistent? Or teach both ways?
Math and Computer Science: right to left in class - just right to left when using GAP
sklarjk: Question: I typed in Factorization(G,(2,3)), and got an answer. What are x1 and x2 in that case?
10:30AM
sklarjk: Since we only gave one generator for the group G.
Math and Computer Science: they are the two generators
sklarjk: For G, not K.
Math and Computer Science: for K
sklarjk: Right, but I typed in Factorization(G,(2,3)), not (K,(2,3)).
sklarjk: And got x1^5*x2*x1=(2,3)
Math and Computer Science: yes, it's telling you what (2,3) equals in terms of the two generators
sklarjk: My question is not regarding Factorization(K,(2,3)).
Math and Computer Science: sorry, try the Q again Jessica
Math and Computer Science: oops, again
sklarjk: No. (2,3) is an odd perm, (1,3,2) and (1,3,4,5,6) are even. So they can't generate (2,3).
sklarjk: YES!
Math and Computer Science: good!
sklarjk: Can we wait a second for this question to be answered? Or should I email later?
sklarjk: The question was: I typed in Factorization(G,(2,3)) and got the answer x1^5*x2*x1. These can't be the even perms r and s. So what are x1 and x2?
sklarjk: Does this make sense?
Robert Talbert: I think GAP must think of G as a dihedral group of order 720, which means it's generated by a standard rotation and reflection. Maybe it can automatically figure out what the rot and refl are.
Math and Computer Science: ah, something has indeed gone wrong there.
brooksbankpa: Jessica: Isn't "G" the symmetric group? x1 and x2 are the standard generators for S_6
Math and Computer Science: G really was just A6
brooksbankpa: Try Generators( G );
sklarjk: No, G is S6. K is A6.
Math and Computer Science: right, K is A6
sklarjk: Generators didn't work, it wanted a value...
brooksbankpa: GeneratorsOgGroup( G )?
Math and Computer Science: Of
10:35AM
brooksbankpa: make that GeneratorsOfGroup
sklarjk: Awesome! Thanks, Pete!
sklarjk: No. What it is is that if you just type in Factorization(G,(2,3)), it factors (2,3) in terms of the standard generators of the group, (1,2,3,4,5,6) and (1,2).
sklarjk: It was not a typo, it was an experiment.
Math and Computer Science: OK!
Jim Woeppel: Is the second generator coorect?
Donna Nonnenkamp: dominic is your connection ok?
Math and Computer Science: Should be (1,3,2) for K, but fine for G
brooksbankpa: I have a list of generators for the Rubik's cube if anyone is interested...
Math and Computer Science: good, please share with the group
10:40AM
brooksbankpa: shall I email the file to you?
Math and Computer Science: yes, please blythrd@slu.edu
10:45AM
Jim Woeppel: I got the same random elements. Does gap always produce random elements in the same order?
sklarjk: I forget: how do you suppress output in GAP?
brooksbankpa: double semicolon
sklarjk: Thanks again, Pete  .
brooksbankpa: sure.
10:50AM
drvazz: Does ctrl-p just repeat the last command? Can you go back and copy and paste an earlier command?
brooksbankpa: Dana: you can also use the "up" arrow to recover previous commands
drvazz: never mind
drvazz: got it
Math and Computer Science: copying and pasting works fine on PC and Mac versions, but not as useful on Unix/Linux, since the new line is not editable then
sklarjk: What is the notation for the identity element of a group in GAP? (Sounds like another question for Master Pete, eh?)
Math and Computer Science: () for perm gps
sklarjk: Cool.
brooksbankpa: Master, eh?
Math and Computer Science: Yes, Pete comes in as a GAP master!
Donna Nonnenkamp: Dominic is it working yet?
10:55AM
Donna Nonnenkamp: We are changing the tape and Juli and Russell are changing places
11:00AM
sklarjk: GAP question: suppose you want to let a be the element (1,2,...,40) in S_40. Is there an abbreviated way to write this in GAP (I assume there is!)?
brooksbankpa: probably: shorthand for the list is: [1..40]. I think you can turn the list
Dominic Soda has declined the invitation to this chat.
brooksbankpa: into a permutation. I'll check how.
Math and Computer Science: Thanks for checking peter
sklarjk: Thanks, Master.
11:05AM
drvazz: Just FYI for Juli and Russell: it's a little hard to follow you around the computer screen, since we have QT, Gap, and IM open in different windows, so can only let VNC have part of the screen
Math and Computer Science: I recommend putting the VNC window big and in front of everythiing else.
Math and Computer Science: You don't need to look at QT unless we are
Math and Computer Science: writing on the board.
Tong Wu has joined this chat.
Donna Nonnenkamp: Tong do you need any help getting your connections
brooksbankpa: Jessica: l:=List([1..40],i->i+1);
brooksbankpa: Add(l,1);
brooksbankpa: s:=PermList(l);
Dominic Soda has joined this chat.
brooksbankpa: whoops, l:=List([1..39],i->i+1);
Tong Wu: hi
Donna Nonnenkamp: Dominic you are back.. good..
11:10AM
sklarjk: s:=PermList(l) seems to give me s=().
Donna Nonnenkamp: Tong do you have everything running?
brooksbankpa: try l:=[2..40];
brooksbankpa: Add(l,1);
brooksbankpa: s:=PermList(l);
brooksbankpa: Is l=[2,3,...,40,1] on your screen?
sklarjk: Yes, got it.
brooksbankpa: great. Don't use permutations much these days!
sklarjk: Hmm... ok, I have l:=[1..40]. Then if I do s:=PermList(l), I get s=(), which isn't right, right?
brooksbankpa: if l=[1..40] you will get the identity.
sklarjk: Oh! I think I see.
Tong Wu: I try to run Quick Time
brooksbankpa: you should have [2,...,40,1]
11:15AM
Donna Nonnenkamp: Russell's gap has locked up
sklarjk: Sweet! Got it Pete, thanx.
11:20AM
11:25AM
11:30AM
Donna Nonnenkamp: Juli suggests that if you have time during the break review and try to work out section 2.1 and 3.1 and 4.1
Donna Nonnenkamp: We will also put up the log files for gap and IM
Ayan Mahalanobis: 2:30 Central?
Math and Computer Science: yes central
Robert Talbert: Will we be using the same URL's as we did this morning for qt and vnc?
Robert Talbert: Thanks.
Math and Computer Science: The only changes to addresses will be the a changes to a p (a for am, p for pm)
11:35AM